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🔥 Нова Україна в новій Європі | Віталій Портников та Ярослав Грицак

Медіа-хаб ТВОЄ МІСТО・52 minutes read

Radio Svoboda's discussions with journalist Vitaly Portnikov and historian Professor Yaroslav Hrytsak highlight Ukraine's critical role in shaping Europe's future, emphasizing that Ukraine's survival as a democratic nation is essential to counter Russian aggression and prevent the rise of authoritarian regimes in Europe. Both speakers agree that Ukraine's integration into the European Union is vital for regional stability and reconciliation, particularly concerning historical grievances between Ukraine and Poland.

Insights

  • Radio Svoboda's establishment in 1954 marked a pivotal moment in Ukrainian journalism, providing vital information to Ukrainians under Soviet control, which underscores the long-standing struggle for access to truthful media and the importance of independent journalism in shaping national identity.
  • Journalist Vitaly Portnikov warns that the outcome of the Russian-Ukrainian war could have dire consequences for democracy in Europe, suggesting that a Ukrainian defeat might embolden authoritarian regimes across the continent and threaten the stability of the European Union, highlighting the interconnectedness of Ukraine's fate and European security.
  • Historian Yaroslav Hrytsak emphasizes the need for Europe to adapt and integrate Ukraine to address current geopolitical challenges, arguing that Ukraine's inclusion in the European Union is essential for strengthening democratic values against authoritarianism, and that mutual recognition of historical responsibilities between Ukraine and Poland can facilitate reconciliation and foster a more united Europe.

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Summary

00:00

Ukraine's Role in Europe's Future Dynamics

  • Radio Svoboda, a Ukrainian news radio, began broadcasting in Ukrainian on August 16, 1954, marking a significant shift in journalism by providing information to Ukrainians living under Soviet rule, which they could not access otherwise.
  • The discussion features journalist Vitaly Portnikov and historian Professor Yaroslav Hrytsak, focusing on the theme "New Ukraine in the New Europe," reflecting on the aspirations for a different Ukraine that has persisted since the Soviet era.
  • Portnikov expresses concern about the chaotic implications of the phrase "New Ukraine in New Europe," emphasizing that the outcome of the Russian-Ukrainian war will fundamentally reshape both Europe and Ukraine's future.
  • He warns that if Ukraine is defeated, it could lead to a resurgence of authoritarian regimes in Europe, a collapse of democracy, and a potential crisis within the European Union, as political figures sympathetic to Russia gain power.
  • Portnikov argues that Ukraine is not merely a shield for Europe against Russian aggression but rather a target; if Ukraine falls, European nations may negotiate with Russia, undermining their own security.
  • He posits that a Ukrainian victory would dismantle the existing geopolitical structure, marking a clear division between Europe and Asia, and diminishing Russia's influence in Europe, which he views as a proxy for China.
  • Hrytsak counters Portnikov's view, suggesting that the concept of "Old Europe" is outdated and that Europe must adapt to maintain its geopolitical relevance, as it has historically faced and resolved crises.
  • Hrytsak emphasizes that control over Ukraine is crucial for controlling Eastern Europe, and thus, the fate of Ukraine is intertwined with the future of Europe itself.
  • The discussion highlights the importance of Ukraine's integration into Europe as a solution to the continent's crises, with Ukraine positioned as a key player in the geopolitical landscape.
  • Both speakers agree on the necessity for Europe to evolve and adapt, with Hrytsak noting that the future of Europe hinges on its ability to embrace Ukraine as part of its solution to current challenges, including energy independence from Russian resources.

17:15

Democracy at Risk in Europe and Beyond

  • The European Union is facing significant challenges, with some economists suggesting it is on a path to potential collapse, emphasizing the need for reform and adaptation to current geopolitical realities.
  • The expansion of Europe, particularly through the inclusion of Ukraine, is viewed as an opportunity for strengthening democracy against authoritarian regimes, marking a critical clash between democratic values and dictatorial governance.
  • The historical context of market despotisms coexisting with market democracies is highlighted, indicating that such coexistence is no longer viable, as evidenced by the ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East.
  • The importance of Ukraine as a symbol of democracy in the post-Soviet space is underscored, with Ukraine and Moldova being recognized as the only established democracies in the region, despite ongoing challenges and crises.
  • The narrative contrasts the democratic experience in Israel with the authoritarian regimes in neighboring countries, emphasizing Israel's role as a beacon of democracy in a predominantly authoritarian region.
  • The discussion points to a growing global consensus prioritizing security over democratic values, with populations increasingly willing to accept authoritarian measures in exchange for safety, as seen in various countries, including France and the U.S.
  • The ongoing war in Ukraine is framed as a pivotal moment for democracy, with the outcome potentially influencing the future of democratic governance in Europe and beyond, particularly if Ukraine is defeated.
  • The speaker warns that the struggle between democracy and dictatorship is not only external but also internal within democratic societies, as authoritarian sentiments gain traction in response to security concerns.
  • The potential for a prolonged conflict in Ukraine is acknowledged, with fears that the population may eventually seek peace at any cost, mirroring historical patterns seen in other conflicts like the Chechen war.
  • A call to action is made for the West to provide Ukraine with increased support, including weapons and financial aid, to counteract Russian aggression and prevent the establishment of a narrative that equates survival with capitulation to authoritarian rule.

32:21

Ukraine's Fight for Sovereignty and Democracy

  • The survival of Ukraine as an independent democratic nation is crucial, as its failure would signify the impotence of democratic countries against dictatorial regimes, similar to the historical context of Chechnya under Russian bombings.
  • Ukrainians are advised to stockpile firewood for the winter to ensure survival, highlighting the need for practical preparations amidst ongoing conflict.
  • There is a call to mobilize the hidden reserves of Ukrainian nationalism, which is seen as a constructive force rather than a threat, and a shift in perception towards nationalism is noted as beneficial for state-building.
  • The speaker emphasizes that the war in Ukraine is a significant threat to Europe, contrasting it with the Chechen conflict, and asserts that Ukraine represents a chance for both itself and Europe to revitalize positive nationalism.
  • The concept of homeland is redefined as essential for democracy, with a critique of the post-war European view that equates nationalism with militarism, advocating for a positive interpretation of nationalism.
  • The speaker argues that the current Ukrainian government, led by Zelensky, may lack the readiness for systemic solutions needed to address the ongoing crisis effectively.
  • The discussion includes the idea that Russia's goal is to eliminate Ukrainian statehood, and the historical context shows that the Russian perception of Ukrainian loyalty has shifted, leading to a broader intent to displace the Ukrainian population.
  • Victory for Ukraine is framed as the necessity to join European and NATO spaces, which would provide security and prevent further aggression from Russia, marking a geopolitical defeat for Putin.
  • The speaker dismisses the notion that Ukraine could disappear from the world map, citing historical resilience of national states and emphasizing that maintaining Ukrainian sovereignty is a loss for Russia.
  • The potential for gradual victory is discussed, suggesting that Ukraine may not achieve immediate success but could secure agreements with individual NATO countries for protection, indicating a strategic, step-by-step approach to overcoming the conflict.

46:43

Political Challenges and Future of Ukraine

  • The discussion highlights concerns about the replacement of professionals with incompetent individuals in government roles, questioning the mechanisms available to influence such situations effectively.
  • The speaker notes a lack of qualified professionals in the current political landscape, emphasizing the need for new political projects that prioritize male meritocracy and professionalism.
  • A reference is made to a new leader in Monaco, whose name resembles that of the current Ukrainian president, suggesting a potential model for political change.
  • The speaker reflects on the failures of previous political projects in Ukraine post-Maidan, stressing the importance of having a quality political project ready by the end of the ongoing war.
  • It is asserted that until the war concludes, Ukraine will continue to experience a non-professional vertical of power, as the populace voted for unprofessional politicians in the 2019 elections, believing they would bring change.
  • The speaker warns that any elections held during the war will not be genuine but rather a plebiscite of confidence in the current leadership, lacking a competitive environment necessary for true democratic processes.
  • The future of Ukraine's elections is uncertain, hinging on factors such as territorial control, the voting population, and the differing visions of Ukrainians living abroad versus those remaining in Ukraine.
  • The importance of maintaining a strong civil society is emphasized, as it can help navigate the complexities of post-war governance and ensure that the population's voice is heard.
  • The speaker discusses the need for honest dialogue with Polish politicians regarding historical grievances, particularly concerning the treatment of graves and the memory of those who died during the war.
  • A call for mutual respect and acknowledgment of historical responsibilities is made, particularly regarding the Volyn tragedy, urging a truthful political discourse to foster better relations between Ukraine and Poland.

01:00:26

Mutual Responsibility for Polish-Ukrainian Reconciliation

  • The text emphasizes the importance of mutual recognition of responsibility between Poles and Ukrainians regarding historical events, particularly the Volyn tragedy, suggesting that both nations must acknowledge their roles to foster national dignity and reconciliation. It highlights the need for Poles to accept their responsibility in the policies leading to Volyn, paralleling the Ukrainian acceptance of their own historical actions, and references the classical European formula of seeking and granting forgiveness, as exemplified in past Polish-German relations and the Ornd cemetery conflict in Lviv.
  • The speaker argues that the potential for reconciliation between Poland and Ukraine significantly increases if Ukraine becomes part of the European Union, as the EU fosters an environment conducive to such reconciliations. The text critiques the Polish stance of delaying Ukrainian EU membership until certain conditions are met, asserting that facilitating Ukraine's entry into the EU would actually ease the reconciliation process regarding historical grievances, particularly concerning Volyn.
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