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Twins in Astrology: Born At the Same Time But Different Fates?

The Astrology Podcast・113 minutes read

Astrologers debate the impact of twins on astrology and the significance of context in interpreting birth charts. Different philosophical perspectives suggest that charts provide a framework for individual experiences, shaping astrologers' practice and beliefs.

Insights

  • Natal astrology's premise is questioned by the issue of twins, exploring the influence of planetary alignments at birth on a person's future and character.
  • Early skeptics like Cicero and Ptolemy debate astrology's validity, emphasizing the importance of context and factors like gender and geography in astrological interpretations.
  • The twins' argument in astrology delves into concepts of fate and free will, showcasing astrologers' engagement with clients who are twins to deepen their understanding and address critiques effectively.
  • Small time differences in birth charts, even minutes apart, significantly impact interpretations due to changes in placements like the Ascendant, Midheaven, and planetary aspects, highlighting astrology's nuanced nature.
  • Astrology's complexity is enhanced by factors like the sect of the chart, Moon's position, aspects between planets, and lots or Arabic parts, emphasizing the need for detailed analysis and understanding in astrological practice.

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Recent questions

  • How do astrologers address the twins' critique?

    Astrologers engage with clients who are twins to deepen their understanding of astrology and effectively address the critique. By working with twins, astrologers can explore the impact of slight time differences in birth charts and how it influences interpretations. This hands-on approach allows astrologers to refine their practice, enhance their responses to criticisms, and delve deeper into the philosophical and technical aspects of astrology. Through these interactions, astrologers can gain valuable insights into the complexities of astrological charts and the nuances of interpreting them accurately.

  • What is the significance of context in astrology?

    Context plays a crucial role in astrology consultations, as it influences the interpretation of birth charts and the accuracy of predictions. Astrologers need to consider factors like historical period, personal background, and societal norms to provide comprehensive readings. By understanding the context surrounding a chart, astrologers can offer more precise insights into a person's life and address specific concerns effectively. The depth and complexity of astrological practice require astrologers to engage in dialogue with clients, gather background information, and consider various contextual details to ensure accurate readings.

  • How do small time differences impact astrology?

    Even small time differences in birth charts can lead to significant changes in astrological interpretations. Minor variations in birth times, such as the degree of the Ascendant or Moon, can alter the placement of planets and angles in a chart. These changes can affect timing techniques, aspects between planets, and the interpretation of planetary influences on an individual's life. Astrologers must pay close attention to these small details to provide accurate readings and predictions, as they can have a profound impact on the overall analysis of a person's chart.

  • What is the philosophical debate in astrology?

    Astrology raises questions about the relationship between fate and freewill, challenging the idea of predetermined events versus personal choices. The philosophical debate delves into whether astrological charts indicate predispositions or final outcomes, considering the role of individual decisions in shaping one's life. Different perspectives on fate and freewill impact personal beliefs and experiences, highlighting the complexity of determining the extent of control individuals have over their lives. Astrologers navigate this debate by incorporating various technical, philosophical, and conceptual factors into their practice to provide holistic readings and interpretations.

  • How do astrologers approach synastry in relationships?

    Astrologers view synastry as the concept that each person in our life acts as a transit to our chart, influencing our dynamics and relationships based on planetary alignments. Relationships introduce unique synastry elements into one's chart, affecting astrological predispositions positively or negatively. By analyzing the interactions between birth charts, astrologers can gain insights into the dynamics and predispositions that shape relationships. Understanding synastry helps astrologers provide more nuanced readings and predictions, considering the impact of others on an individual's chart and life path.

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Summary

00:00

"Twins in Astrology: Fate vs Free Will"

  • The episode of The Astrology Podcast was recorded on Tuesday, August 7th, 2018, at 1:42 PM in Denver, Colorado, marking the 167th episode.
  • Chris Brennan and Adam Elenbaas discuss the topic of twins in astrology, a common critique of astrology.
  • The issue of twins questions the premise of natal astrology, which suggests that planetary alignments at birth influence a person's future and character.
  • There are two categories of twins in astrology: twins born close together from the same parents and time twins born around the same time to different parents.
  • Cicero in the 1st century BCE was one of the first skeptics to criticize astrology, specifically mentioning the twins' argument.
  • Ptolemy, in the 2nd century, responded to early criticisms by emphasizing the importance of context in astrology, considering factors like gender, geography, and cultural norms.
  • Astrologers have historically grappled with the twins' criticism, with Saint Augustine mentioning Nigidius Figulus' potter's wheel analogy to illustrate how even slight time differences can impact birth charts significantly.
  • The debate surrounding twins in astrology also delves into the concepts of fate and free will, with astrologers acknowledging the influence of multiple causal factors in a person's life.
  • Astrologers like Adam Elenbaas engage with clients who are twins to deepen their understanding of astrology and address the critique effectively.
  • The twins' argument serves as a tool for astrologers to delve deeper into the philosophical and technical aspects of astrology, enhancing their practice and responses to criticisms.

13:32

Debates on astrology and twin births

  • Nigidius, also known as Figulus, used a parable involving a potter's wheel to explain the rapid succession of twins' births and the resulting differences in their lives.
  • Augustine sarcastically criticizes Nigidius' parable, highlighting the limitations of astrologers in observing the sky accurately at that time.
  • Early debates on astrology, dating back to the Roman Empire, involved skeptics attacking astrologers and vice versa.
  • Different skeptical attacks on astrology were based on philosophical and religious perspectives, with some claiming it works due to evil spirits while others denied its validity entirely.
  • The Catholic Church historically resisted astrology due to the presence of practicing clergy, leading to bans against astrology.
  • The birth times of twins, even if minutes apart, can significantly impact their astrological charts and interpretations.
  • Even a few minutes' difference in birth times can lead to major changes in chart placements, such as the Ascendant moving through zodiac signs.
  • The Midheaven's degree can also rapidly change, altering the ruler of the 10th house and affecting interpretations related to career and reputation.
  • Planets' proximity to angles like the Ascendant or Midheaven can shift based on time differences, impacting their prominence in a chart and a person's life.
  • The concept of sect, which considers the placement of planets in relation to the Sun, is crucial in determining a chart's interpretation and the influence of planets on an individual.

27:36

Sect changes impact chart interpretation significantly.

  • The sect of the chart can change based on whether it is daytime or nighttime when two people are born, impacting the interpretation of benefic and malefic influences.
  • The sect status of a chart can change rapidly, altering the chart's interpretation significantly.
  • The Moon changing signs between births can lead to major interpretive differences.
  • Even a small difference in the Moon's position can impact the chart's interpretation.
  • Aspects between planets can shift from applying to separating, influencing the chart's interpretation.
  • Applying aspects indicate future developments, while separating aspects suggest past influences.
  • The completion or separation of aspects, like a trine with a benefic or an opposition with a malefic, can drastically alter interpretations.
  • Enclosures of planets, where a planet is stuck between two others, can create challenging combinations in a chart.
  • A story from horary practice illustrates how the Moon's movement within minutes can provide crucial insights into a situation.
  • Understanding the nuances of applying and separating aspects is essential in interpreting astrological charts accurately.

40:17

"Small Time Differences in Astrology Interpretations"

  • Astrology can reflect major life changes through small time differences in aspects.
  • Natal astrology can show recurring themes in a person's life due to significant events.
  • Small changes in a few minutes can lead to major interpretive differences in a person's chart.
  • Changes in the Ascendant, Midheaven, and other angles can occur rapidly, affecting interpretations.
  • Lots or Arabic parts can change degrees quickly, impacting interpretations significantly.
  • Changes in lots or Arabic parts can alter timing techniques in astrology, leading to dramatic shifts.
  • Derived houses from the lot of fortune can be more important than natal houses in certain techniques.
  • Subdivisions of zodiacal signs, like decans, can have different qualities associated with them.
  • Twelfth-parts in astrology divide zodiacal signs into smaller portions, affecting interpretations.
  • Small variations in astrology, like in a garden, can lead to significant differences in outcomes.

54:30

Astrology's Impact on Personality and Destiny

  • Ancient astrology, like Antiochus and Porphyry, had rules for calculating the master of the nativity, with one approach being the bound lord or planet ruling the Ascendant's terms.
  • The distinction between Venus and Mars dominance in a chart is influenced by the Ascendant moving between different planet bounds.
  • Differences in personality and destiny were noted between siblings based on the planets in their charts, like Mars in the second house leading to entrepreneurship and Venus in the third house indicating a studious nature.
  • Twins may divide the chart, appropriating certain features, possibly reflecting their future and past lives, with subdivisions like twelfth-parts, bounds/terms, and decans being significant.
  • Indian astrology uses subdivisions like navamshas, casting separate charts for them, interpreting them uniquely based on the planets' locations.
  • Birth times in astrology can be contentious, with some advocating for rectification to ensure accuracy, while others believe in the recorded time's validity.
  • Homeopathic remedies like rescue remedy were used during childbirth, highlighting the belief in essential potency in minor subdivisions, akin to astrology's subdivisions.
  • The movement of the Ascendant into different subdivisions can have a significant impact on the entire chart, similar to the ripple effect in homeopathy.
  • Exploring Indian astrology's rich background, especially subdivisions like navamshas, can provide valuable insights for astrologers.
  • Researching the casting of separate subdivisional charts in Hellenistic astrology, like twelfth-part charts, could offer a deeper understanding of minute distinctions in interpretations.

01:07:21

Astrology and Birth Order Impact Siblings

  • In Indian astrology, younger siblings are assigned to the third house, while older siblings are assigned to the 11th house.
  • The order of birth can impact the role and relationship dynamics between siblings in astrology.
  • Timing techniques in astrology, such as the placement of planets like Saturn or Jupiter, can affect predictions and events in a person's life.
  • Small changes in the astrological chart, like the degree of the Ascendant or Moon, can alter the activation of timing techniques and the timing of events in a person's life.
  • Zodiac releasing periods can vary significantly based on small changes in the birth chart, leading to decades of difference in timing techniques.
  • Twins may divide the astrological chart, with each twin embodying certain planetary qualities more than the other.
  • The concept of chart division may differ in application between identical and fraternal twins due to genetic differences.
  • Astrologers addressing twin issues ideally should have a background in twin research or related fields to provide a comprehensive perspective.
  • The documentary "Three Identical Strangers" explores the impact of different nurturing environments on identical triplets and the nature versus nurture debate.
  • The film highlights how parenting styles and environments can significantly influence mental health and life outcomes, showcasing the complexity of nature versus nurture.

01:21:39

"Context in Astrology: Essential for Accurate Readings"

  • The individuals discussed were born approximately two minutes apart, totaling around 10 minutes between the three of them.
  • Research on twins explores the interplay of nature and nurture, with a study involving triplets considered unethical and exposed in a film.
  • The triplets involved in the study have not been granted access to the results, with limited information obtained even after the film's release.
  • Astrologers debate the significance of the context in interpreting birth charts, distinguishing between natal and electional astrology.
  • Each soul is viewed as unique in yoga philosophy, influencing how birth charts are perceived and interpreted.
  • Differences in gender, cultural context, and societal factors impact how individuals manifest astrological placements in their lives.
  • Contextual details, such as historical period and personal background, significantly influence the interpretation of astrological charts.
  • Understanding the context of a chart is crucial for accurate astrological readings, requiring dialogue and background information from clients.
  • Astrologers face skepticism regarding cold reading and the accuracy of astrology, emphasizing the importance of context in consultations.
  • The necessity of considering context in astrology consultations is essential for accurate predictions and interpretations, highlighting the depth and complexity of astrological practice.

01:36:22

Astrology: Archetypal Predictions and Personal Manifestations

  • Richard Tarnas states that astrology is archetypally predictive, with each placement in a chart having a range of possible meanings falling under the same archetypal umbrella.
  • Transits to the Sun sign, such as Uranus opposition or Neptune opposition, can bring opportunities for individuation, leading to different experiences even for twins with the same Sun sign.
  • Astrology being archetypally predictive means that the same placement can manifest differently but still align with the archetype, as seen in individuals with the same chart but different careers like athlete or military personnel.
  • The manifestation of placements in astrology raises questions about fate, free will, and the influence of past actions or karma on current life circumstances.
  • In the Bhakti yoga tradition, karma is likened to a predetermined flight path from New York to London, where freewill exists within the confines of karma, encouraging individuals to make choices despite predetermined events.
  • Different types of karma in Hindu philosophy suggest varying levels of negotiability, impacting how individuals manifest placements in their birth chart based on their family background and life circumstances.
  • Synastry, the concept that each person in our life acts as a transit to our chart, influences our dynamics and relationships based on the alignment of planets in their birth chart interacting with ours.

01:50:01

Astrology: Relationships, Relocation, and Fate

  • People cannot be in the same place at the same time, leading to unique interactions and relationships that impact their lives.
  • Relationships with others introduce different synastry elements into one's life, affecting their astrological chart positively or negatively.
  • The birth chart is dynamic, reflecting ongoing movement and change, influenced by interactions with others and the ever-moving sky.
  • Synastry relationships with family members impact one's chart, emphasizing predispositions in different ways.
  • Astrology involves innumerable variables that astrologers can only scratch the surface of, impacting every aspect of a person's life.
  • The abundance of operative variables in astrology highlights the significance of small details and tools in providing accurate insights.
  • Relocation astrology suggests that moving to different locations can change the emphasis of certain parts of a person's chart.
  • Relocating can lead to different parts of a chart being emphasized, diverging the charts of individuals born at the same time.
  • Relocation astrology can also indicate affinities for different cultures or interests in specific countries.
  • The philosophical debate of freewill versus fate in astrology questions whether charts indicate predispositions or final outcomes, considering the role of choice in shaping one's life.

02:04:36

The Debate: Fate, Freewill, and Astrology

  • Choices influence the trajectory of events on a timeline, altering the shape and nature of preordained events.
  • Freewill allows for flexibility in how events unfold, despite some level of determinism.
  • The philosophical debate between freewill and determinism is complex, involving personal beliefs and experiences.
  • The difficulty in controlling unconscious desires challenges the notion of true freedom.
  • Fate and freewill can be viewed positively or negatively, impacting personal choices and outcomes.
  • Yoga philosophy suggests that material desires are ultimately fruitless, challenging the idea of fate and freewill.
  • Astrology raises questions about the relationship between the soul, chart predispositions, and personal choices.
  • Different philosophical perspectives suggest that the chart provides distance from its descriptions, allowing for individual experiences.
  • Astrologers consider various technical, philosophical, and conceptual factors to shape their practice and beliefs.
  • Consultations involve a dialogue between astrologer and client, allowing for feedback and a deeper understanding of the individual's chart.

02:19:15

Enhancing Astrology Readings with Client Feedback

  • Feedback from clients and statements helps specify details in astrology readings
  • Context is crucial in addressing issues, especially in relation to twins, providing missing factors not found in astrological charts
  • Doubts and specific details act as triangulation tools to uncover truth and uniqueness in astrology readings
  • Astrologers use a triangulation process to enhance interpretations and make predictions based on chart details
  • Understanding a person's trajectory and context is essential in astrology for making accurate predictions and statements
  • Developing YouTube channels to reach wider audiences and provide better quality astrology content, focusing on traditional and Hellenistic astrology.
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