Roger Reaves: Smuggling Drugs for Pablo Escobar and the Medellin Cartel | Lex Fridman Podcast #199

Lex Fridman・2 minutes read

Roger Reeves was a drug smuggler for the Medellin Cartel, facing numerous challenges and prison sentences. Despite betrayals and hardships, his story highlights the complexities of criminal life and the enduring impact of his experiences.

Insights

  • Roger Reeves was a prolific drug smuggler working for Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa, transporting large quantities of cocaine and marijuana across six continents.
  • Despite five prison escapes, Reeves was eventually caught and tortured in a Mexican prison, with his wife Mari standing by him throughout his criminal activities.
  • Reeves reflects on the war on drugs, highlighting the exorbitant costs and human toll, as well as his interactions with Escobar and Ochoa, portraying them as complex figures.
  • The podcast featuring Reeves delves into his criminal past, emphasizing the complexities of his character and the enduring impact of his choices and relationships.

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Recent questions

  • Who is Roger Reeves and what criminal activities was he involved in?

    Roger Reeves was a prolific drug smuggler who worked for Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa, leaders of the Medellin Cartel. He transported large quantities of cocaine and marijuana across six continents, escaping prison multiple times before being caught and tortured in a Mexican prison. Despite his criminal past, his wife Mari stood by him, even waiting for him while he was incarcerated. Reeves recently completed his memoir titled "Smuggler" after his release from prison, reflecting on the complexities of his character and the war on drugs.

  • What were the interactions between Roger Reeves and Pablo Escobar like?

    Roger Reeves described his interactions with Pablo Escobar as initially portraying him as a gentleman but later revealing his brutal and murderous side. Reeves highlighted Escobar's complex nature, showcasing how the drug lord appeared charming at first but had a darker side. Despite the risks involved in working with Escobar, Reeves navigated the drug trade, emphasizing the importance of obtaining permits and using specific routes to transport drugs.

  • How did Barry Seal impact Roger Reeves' criminal activities?

    Barry Seal, a notorious drug smuggler, was a close friend and employer of Roger Reeves. Seal's criminal history involved drug smuggling and explosives, leading to suspicions about his loyalty and high-level associations. Despite initial skepticism, Reeves eventually hired Seal for his exceptional piloting skills, entrusting him with significant amounts of money. Seal's involvement with the DEA and potential collaboration with Pablo Escobar raised questions about his loyalties and connections.

  • What challenges did Roger Reeves face during his criminal activities?

    Roger Reeves faced challenges like landing on poorly maintained strips, dealing with unreliable gasoline sources, and navigating the risks of drug smuggling. Despite these obstacles, Reeves flew drugs from Mexico to the United States, emphasizing the importance of specific routes and permits to avoid legal issues. He recounted daring escapes from dangerous situations, including being shot down in Colombia and enduring torture in a Mexican prison.

  • How did Roger Reeves' decision not to testify against Barry Seal impact his life?

    Roger Reeves faced pressure to testify against Barry Seal but struggled with the idea of being a snitch. Seeking legal advice in Miami, Reeves ultimately decided not to testify, leading to respect from the cartels but also financial issues. His loyalty to Seal and refusal to betray him showcased the complexities of their relationship and the challenges faced in the criminal underworld. Despite the risks and consequences, Reeves stood by his decision, reflecting on the enduring impact of his choices.

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Summary

00:00

"Smuggler: Roger Reeves' Criminal Memoir"

  • Roger Reeves was a prolific drug smuggler who worked for Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa, leaders of the Medellin Cartel.
  • He was a close friend and employer of Barry Seal, a notorious drug smuggler portrayed in the movie American Made.
  • Reeves transported large quantities of cocaine and marijuana across six continents.
  • Despite escaping prison five times, he was eventually caught and tortured in a Mexican prison.
  • Throughout his criminal activities, his wife Mari stood by him, even waiting for him while he was in prison.
  • Reeves recently completed his memoir titled "Smuggler" after being released from prison.
  • The podcast featuring Reeves delves into his criminal past and the complexities of his character.
  • Reeves reflects on the war on drugs, highlighting the exorbitant costs and human toll it has taken.
  • He discusses his interactions with Pablo Escobar and Jorge Ochoa, portraying them as complex figures.
  • Reeves describes Escobar as initially appearing as a gentleman but later revealing his brutal and murderous side.

15:40

"Drug Smuggling Adventures: Profits, Permits, and Betrayal"

  • The individual was smart in his drug dealings, initially selling 10 kilos while evading the DEA on a motorcycle in a parking lot.
  • The Medellin Cartel was formed by five individuals, each running their own cocaine business with no apparent power struggles.
  • Despite the immense profits involved, there was surprisingly no betrayal among the cartel members due to the vast amounts of money being made.
  • The individual flew drugs from Mexico to the United States, emphasizing the importance of obtaining a permit to avoid legal issues.
  • Flying low and using specific routes, such as landing on highways in Mexico, was common practice to transport drugs.
  • The individual faced challenges like landing on poorly maintained strips and dealing with unreliable gasoline sources.
  • Landing on highways in Mexico was a frequent occurrence, with locals assisting in loading the drugs onto the plane.
  • The individual met Barry Seal, another drug smuggler, during a trip to Honduras while looking for a ranch to purchase.
  • The individual's interactions with locals in various countries, including Honduras and Mexico, were often positive, with people treating him well.
  • Despite the risks involved in drug smuggling, the individual felt protected and honored in Colombia, contrasting with the fear he experienced upon returning to the United States.

29:43

"Flight with Barry Seal: A Criminal Pilot"

  • The narrator recalls a time when he urgently needed to catch a flight and encountered a pilot named Barry Seal at the airport.
  • Barry Seal, a former TWA pilot, had a criminal history involving drug smuggling and explosives.
  • Despite initial skepticism, the narrator eventually hired Barry Seal to fly for him due to his exceptional piloting skills.
  • Barry Seal flew numerous trips for the narrator, earning a million dollars per trip and two thousand dollars per kilo of cargo.
  • The narrator entrusted Barry Seal with a significant amount of money for safekeeping, highlighting their close relationship.
  • Barry Seal's association with the DEA and potential collaboration with Pablo Escobar raised suspicions about his loyalty.
  • Barry Seal's refusal to land in certain locations due to political connections, including with Bill Clinton, hinted at his high-level associations.
  • The narrator paid a substantial sum for Barry Seal to land at Mena, Arkansas, indicating a perceived safety in that location.
  • The narrator's involvement with Barry Seal and their operations led to legal troubles and a significant prison sentence.
  • The narrator reflects on the complex and controversial relationships and events surrounding Barry Seal, highlighting the enduring conspiracy theories and uncertainties.

43:32

Barry's Honesty Unveils CIA's Dark Secrets

  • Barry was honest and not motivated by money, even when offered a large sum.
  • Barry shared details about his involvement in arms and drug trafficking leading up to his assassination.
  • Barry's CIA buddies were involved in supplying arms and drugs, leaving him in trouble.
  • The Iran-Contra scandal involved the CIA using drug trade to fund operations.
  • Barry was caught with tons of cocaine and cooperated with authorities, leading to his testimony before Congress.
  • Barry's involvement in drug trafficking led to a difficult decision for his friend Roger.
  • Roger faced pressure to testify against Barry but struggled with the idea of being a snitch.
  • Roger sought legal advice in Miami but ultimately decided to go to Miami with Barry.
  • Roger's decision not to testify against Barry led to respect from the cartels but also financial issues.
  • Barry was killed by a hitman named Ronaldo, who was later imprisoned for life.

57:57

Barbarian: Cocaine, Planes, and Sensationalization

  • The story revolves around a character named Barbarian, who is depicted as coming out of whorehouses and putting a gun to his head in Columbia.
  • Barbarian is said to have put $25 million worth of cocaine on his plane and faced a bet that he wouldn't have enough room to take off.
  • He is described as having five planes that split when the DEA arrives, portraying a fantasy-like image of the character.
  • The narrator criticizes the sensationalization of Barbarian's story, emphasizing the missed profound aspects and the focus on negative details.
  • A comparison is drawn to the HBO series "Chernobyl," praised for its historical accuracy and capturing the spirit of the period it portrays.
  • The narrator expresses the belief that a story like Barbarian's could have been told better without sensationalizing certain angles.
  • The narrator suggests that a movie should be made about Rogers, referencing a book titled "Smuggler: A Memoir."
  • The conversation shifts to the movie "Blow," which tells the story of George Young, a drug smuggler, and the emotional impact of the father-son scene at the end.
  • The narrator recounts a harrowing experience of being tortured in a Mexican prison, including beatings, near-drowning, and other forms of torture.
  • Despite the brutal treatment, the narrator reflects on his stubbornness and hope that kept him mentally strong during the ordeal, sharing a story of a daring escape from a dangerous situation involving a plane crash and gunfire.

01:12:09

Survival and Escape: A Harrowing Journey

  • The individual recounts being shot in various body parts, including the toenail, head, and kneecap, with a piece of bullet lodged in their foot.
  • They travel up a mountain on a donkey with a companion, encountering a man plowing with a horse and ox.
  • A doctor named Dr. Benjamin treats their wounds with cloth and diesel oil to prevent flies.
  • They are warned that Pedro will die without hospital treatment due to being mistaken for a dead American pilot.
  • They are hidden in a truck loaded with corn to evade detection and taken to a house for clothes and washing.
  • They are advised to head south due to roadblocks and take a taxi to Guadalajara with pain pills.
  • The individual recalls being shot down in Colombia while attempting a drug-related mission.
  • They narrowly escape military jets attacking their plane and manage to land in a pasture despite difficulties with the landing gear.
  • The plane sustains damage upon landing, with fuel leaking out, but there is no fire.
  • They eventually escape from prison in Lubeck, Germany, by manipulating bars, climbing scaffolding, and navigating a guard tower to freedom.

01:25:16

Escape, adversity, and resilience in prison journey.

  • The speaker recalls a daring escape attempt, jumping from a height and evading gunfire, ultimately reaching safety.
  • While fleeing, the speaker encounters a hostile woman in a car, causing damage in her pursuit.
  • The speaker faces challenges like glass shards while escaping over a wall, injuring their hands and arms.
  • Murray, a contact, provides the speaker with $200 during their time in prison.
  • The speaker navigates various prisons, noting the harsh conditions and animosity from guards and inmates.
  • In prison, the speaker engages in activities like running, playing chess, and storytelling to cope with the environment.
  • The speaker reflects on the concept of institutionalization, as depicted in "The Shawshank Redemption."
  • The speaker describes their time in solitary confinement in Australia, highlighting the impact of isolation.
  • Upon returning to the United States, the speaker faces mistreatment and isolation in American prisons.
  • The speaker eventually gains parole and experiences challenges and mistreatment during the COVID-19 pandemic in prison.

01:39:41

"Love endures through drug smuggling and prison"

  • Opioids like heroin cost about a dollar a day for addicts to get their fix.
  • Methadone, an alternative from pharmaceutical companies, is considered equally harmful.
  • Portugal and England have tried giving addicts clean drugs, resulting in reduced crime rates.
  • Suggestions are made for addicts to access clean needles and assistance for their fix, cheaper than prison.
  • Advice is given to young people to focus on education, pursue a trade, and avoid drug addiction.
  • The prison system is recommended to sentence offenders to learn trades for future employment.
  • Encouragement is provided to maintain honesty and commitment in relationships for a stable family life.
  • The story of how the couple met at a lake in Canada is shared, leading to a lasting love story.
  • Despite challenges, the couple's love endured through drug smuggling and prison time.
  • The importance of faith, communication, and love is highlighted as crucial for a successful relationship.

01:56:04

"Finding Good, Unchanged Nature, Mortality, and Gratitude"

  • The speaker focuses on seeing the good in people, understanding negativity, and the impact of faith on perception.
  • Roger discusses his unchanged nature, feeling calmer now, and his contentment at home.
  • The conversation delves into thoughts on mortality, upcoming heart valve surgery, and recent loss of a brother.
  • Roger shares visions of the future, out-of-body experiences, and a clear vision of his future self.
  • The discussion touches on the meaning of life, individual uniqueness, and the importance of letting one's uniqueness flourish.
  • The conversation explores the concept of free will, the existence of spirits beyond the body, and the eternal nature of beings.
  • Roger reflects on the mystery of life's purpose, the awe of existence, and the belief in understanding after crossing over.
  • The speaker reads a heartfelt poem from his daughter Miriam, recalling shared memories and expressing deep love and gratitude.
  • The conversation concludes with gratitude for the visit, a mutual appreciation for the discussion, and a quote from Pablo Escobar on the creation of empires.
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