The Considerations Before Judgement in Horary Astrology Revisited

The Astrology Podcast・2 minutes read

Astrologer Chris Brennan and Rob Bailey discussed horary astrology considerations in a follow-up to previous episodes, emphasizing the importance of genuine questions and traditional guidelines for accurate readings despite differing opinions in the astrology community. The interview explored the significance of foundational principles in astrology, highlighting the evolution of practices and the ongoing debates surrounding the use of different house systems in horary astrology.

Insights

  • Extensive research and preparation by Chris Brennan led to a valuable discussion with Rob Bailey on horary astrology considerations, continuing from a previous episode with Sue Ward.
  • Importance of aligning horary astrology charts with genuine and serious questions, as emphasized by early authors like Masha'allah and Bonatti, to ensure accurate interpretations.
  • Debate among astrologers regarding the validity and strictness of considerations in horary astrology, with varying approaches from practitioners like Frawley and Lee Lehman.
  • Evolution of astrological practices over time, influenced by historical texts and modern interpretations, showcasing ongoing debates and shifts in traditional guidelines.
  • Significance of consultation charts in historical astrology for understanding clients' thoughts, impressing them, and focusing on specific issues to provide accurate readings.

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Recent questions

  • What is the significance of the ruler of the Ascendant in horary astrology?

    In horary astrology, the ruler of the Ascendant plays a crucial role in determining the outcome of a chart. The ruler of the Ascendant represents the querent, providing insights into their motivations, desires, and overall situation. By analyzing the condition and placement of the ruler of the Ascendant, astrologers can gain a deeper understanding of the querent's perspective and the context of their question. The ruler of the Ascendant influences the entire chart, shaping the narrative and indicating potential outcomes based on its condition and aspects. Therefore, paying close attention to the ruler of the Ascendant is essential in interpreting horary charts accurately.

  • How do considerations in horary astrology impact chart interpretation?

    Considerations in horary astrology are essential guidelines that astrologers use to assess the validity and accuracy of a chart before interpretation. These considerations, derived from historical texts and astrological traditions, help astrologers determine whether a chart is suitable for answering the querent's question. By examining factors like the Ascendant degree, planetary placements, and specific rules outlined by astrological authorities, practitioners can ensure the chart's integrity and relevance to the query at hand. Adhering to considerations before judgment in horary astrology enhances the precision and reliability of astrological readings, guiding astrologers in providing insightful and meaningful interpretations for their clients.

  • What is the significance of asking genuine and serious questions in horary astrology?

    In horary astrology, the importance of asking genuine and serious questions cannot be overstated. The authenticity and sincerity of the querent's inquiry directly impact the accuracy and relevance of the resulting chart. Genuine questions reflect the querent's true intentions, emotions, and concerns, allowing astrologers to provide meaningful insights and guidance. Serious inquiries demonstrate a commitment to seeking astrological advice and respecting the wisdom of the practice. By emphasizing the significance of genuine and serious questions, horary astrologers ensure that the charts they cast accurately reflect the querent's situation and facilitate insightful interpretations that address the core issues at hand.

  • How do astrologers determine the validity of early or late rising signs in horary charts?

    The validity of early or late rising signs in horary charts is a subject of debate among astrologers, with differing opinions on their significance and impact. Some practitioners argue that early or late rising signs may introduce calculation errors, leading to inaccuracies in house rulerships and planetary placements. Others believe that these signs carry symbolic meanings and should be carefully considered in chart interpretation. Astrologers evaluate the Ascendant degree and rising sign's position to determine whether the chart aligns with the querent's question and provides accurate insights. By examining the implications of early or late rising signs in horary astrology, practitioners aim to enhance the precision and reliability of their readings while respecting traditional guidelines and interpretive approaches.

  • How have considerations before judgment evolved in horary astrology over time?

    Considerations before judgment in horary astrology have evolved over time, reflecting changes in astrological practices, interpretations, and scholarly debates. Initially conceived as guidelines for assessing the validity of charts before interpretation, considerations have undergone shifts in emphasis, application, and significance within the astrological community. Different practitioners and schools of thought have varying approaches to considerations, ranging from strict adherence to flexible interpretation based on context and client needs. The evolving nature of considerations in horary astrology underscores the dynamic and multifaceted aspects of astrological traditions, highlighting ongoing discussions, revisions, and adaptations in response to historical texts, contemporary insights, and practical experiences.

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Summary

00:00

"Revisiting Considerations Before Judgment in Horary Astrology"

  • Episode 298 of The Astrology Podcast features a discussion between Chris Brennan and astrologer Rob Bailey on revisiting considerations before judgment in horary astrology.
  • The episode was a follow-up to episode 296 with Sue Ward on the same topic.
  • Chris had done extensive research and preparation for the episode with Sue but felt the need to continue the discussion with Rob the next day.
  • The conversation with Rob was initially for a private podcast series but was deemed valuable enough to be released as a full episode.
  • The interview with Rob took place on Thursday, March 18th, 2021, starting at 5:31 p.m. in Denver.
  • Rob has been practicing horary astrology since around 2009 and has taken it more seriously in recent years.
  • Rob's website is oldschoolastrology.com.
  • Chris and Rob discussed a horary chart for Lisa, focusing on the significance of the ruler of the Ascendant and the sixth house.
  • The chart reflected Lisa's question about her job and health concerns, showing the importance of the chart aligning with the question.
  • The conversation delved into the importance of ensuring the question in horary astrology is genuine and serious, as emphasized by early horary authors like Masha'allah and Bonatti.

12:44

Debating Astrological Significance of Rising Signs

  • Medieval books emphasize the importance of asking significant questions in astrology, discouraging frivolous inquiries.
  • William Lilly, a prominent astrologer, contradicts his own advice by engaging in seemingly trivial horary practices, like finding hidden objects for entertainment.
  • Some astrologers, like Frawley, believe every chart is valid, while others, like Lee Lehman, adhere to traditional guidelines of only addressing important questions.
  • Frawley's extreme stance on considerations in horary astrology suggests they are merely excuses to avoid answering challenging questions, a view not universally accepted.
  • Frawley's writing style and wit have influenced many astrologers, despite his controversial views on the symbolic significance of astrological considerations.
  • Frawley's skepticism towards the historical significance of certain astrological rules, like early or late rising signs, is debated among astrologers.
  • Culpeper reports Bonatti's rule about not judging a chart with early or late rising signs, attributing it to potential timekeeping inaccuracies rather than symbolic meanings.
  • Bonatti's caution about early or late rising signs may stem from uncertainty about the correct Ascendant, a crucial factor in accurate chart interpretation.
  • In horary astrology, an incorrect Ascendant degree can lead to inaccurate house rulerships, emphasizing the importance of precise calculations.
  • Astrologers debate the validity of discarding charts with early or late rising signs, considering calculation errors and the impact on house rulerships.

25:24

Evolving debates in horary astrology considerations.

  • The rising degree technique in horary astrology involves considering the Ascendant's position, especially if it's early or late, indicating premature or concluded matters.
  • There are ongoing debates in the astrology community regarding the utility of considerations, with differing opinions between various camps.
  • Changes in interpretations over time, like Lee Lehman's shift towards traditional definitions, highlight the evolving nature of astrological practices.
  • The significance of traditional considerations in horary astrology is emphasized, with debates arising due to differing translations and interpretations of old texts.
  • The number and nature of considerations in horary astrology, as outlined by Lilly, have evolved over time, blurring the lines between aphorisms and strict rules.
  • The role of aphorisms in horary astrology, particularly those introduced by Lilly, has been significant in shaping astrological practices.
  • The seventh house in Lilly's work introduces additional aphorisms that expand on the initial considerations, offering insights into the astrologer's reputation and involvement in the question.
  • The modern treatment of considerations as strict guidelines to reject charts contrasts with their original intent as points for consideration.
  • William Lilly's affinity for aphorisms is evident in his later works, where he published additional lists of aphorisms in his almanacs, contributing to the canonization of considerations in horary astrology.
  • The evolving nature of astrological practices, influenced by historical texts and contemporary interpretations, underscores the complexity and ongoing debates within the field of horary astrology.

38:11

Considerations Before Judgement in Horary Astrology

  • Some considerations in the list by Lilly may have originated from aphorisms or other instructions, not specifically for horary, but have been adapted for that purpose.
  • The list of Considerations Before Judgement may have been more general in nature originally, but have been interpreted as crucial steps before reading a chart.
  • The importance given to these considerations has increased due to a revival of traditional astrology, leading to potential overanalysis or overemphasis on certain factors.
  • The rule about the Ascendant ruler being retrograde or combust may have been intended as a general horary rule but is now strictly followed before reading a chart.
  • The term "consideration" may have evolved into a more rigid interpretation over time, possibly due to authoritative figures emphasizing their importance.
  • The term "stricture" was used by Ivy Goldstein Jacobson and Barbara Walters to describe these considerations, implying a strict rule to be followed.
  • Some practitioners have shifted their views on these considerations over time, with some becoming less strict in their application.
  • The value of these considerations is acknowledged, but there is a debate on whether they should be used as strict rules or more as guidelines to keep in mind.
  • Different practitioners have varying approaches to these considerations, with some focusing more on early horary traditions while others delve into the Renaissance tradition.
  • Christian Astrology by Lilly was published in 1647, with a potential unauthorized second edition later, sparking interest and discussion among practitioners.

51:25

Astrologers' Rivalries and Practical Considerations

  • The episode with Nina on Lilly and Christian Astrology is discussed as an updated edition.
  • The interaction between different astrologers and their rivalries is highlighted.
  • Abu Ma'shar is noted as one of the first astrologers with detailed biographical information.
  • Valens and Ptolemy's relationship in Alexandria remains unclear.
  • William Lilly's autobiography provides colorful insights into astrologers' personalities.
  • The relatability of ancient astrologers' personal digressions is emphasized.
  • Practical considerations in astrology, like daylight savings time, are crucial for accurate readings.
  • Afflictions to the first and seventh houses are significant in horary astrology.
  • Lilly's considerations on the cusp of the seventh house and Saturn's placements are explained.
  • The balance between textual sources and experiential knowledge in astrology practice is discussed.

01:04:07

Astrological Texts: Time, Authors, and Interpretations

  • Double check the time and daylight savings to ensure accuracy.
  • Centiloquium claims to be written by Ptolemy but may have been authored by a 10th-century Islamic writer.
  • The aphorisms attributed to Ptolemy were translated back into Greek by Byzantine astrologers.
  • Astrologers in the Islamic tradition observed rules like the seventh house affliction.
  • Considerations like the Moon in late degrees or combustor are from Bonatti and Sahl.
  • Void of course Moon can be mitigated in Taurus, Cancer, Sagittarius, or Pisces according to Bonatti.
  • Afflictions like Saturn in the Ascendant, especially Retrograde, are significant in horary astrology.
  • The Book of the Nine Judges discusses the balance of malefics and benefics in a chart.
  • Masha'allah's text in Nine Judges suggests the ability to detect deception or intentions in a chart.
  • Proper intention in a question to an astrologer may influence the outcome of the chart.

01:17:37

Interpreting Thoughts in Horary Astrology

  • Bonatti suggests checking the planetary hour and rising sign to interpret thoughts.
  • Ben Dykes notes the comparison between Bonatti's and Lilly's approaches.
  • Other authors may have used thought interpretation to find the significator of thoughts.
  • Horary astrology reveals what a person is thinking about or asking through chart casting.
  • Horary astrologers established that charts describe the querent's thoughts and questions accurately.
  • Charts may also indicate the intentions of the querent, especially if they are not genuine.
  • Lilly would compare the rising sign to the querent's description to ensure accuracy.
  • Sahl emphasizes that the chart should reflect the state of the querent for accuracy.
  • The chart's radicality and foundation are crucial for successful predictions in horary astrology.
  • Thought interpretation may have been used by early astrologers to handle testing situations.

01:30:32

Astrologers' Thought Interpretation for Deception and Protection

  • Historical astrologers used thought interpretation rules to address issues of deception and lying.
  • The consultation chart framework gained prominence in late Hellenistic and early Medieval traditions.
  • Horary astrology evolved from thought interpretation, focusing on predicting outcomes based on aspects and rulers.
  • Early astrologers used thought interpretation to understand clients' thoughts and concerns.
  • Consultation charts help astrologers clarify clients' primary concerns and focus on specific topics.
  • Astrologers aimed to simplify and focus clients' questions to provide accurate readings.
  • Consultation charts assist in narrowing down clients' concerns and focusing on one main issue.
  • Understanding clients' thoughts impresses them and establishes credibility for the astrologer.
  • The protective function of consultation charts helps astrologers anticipate and address potential issues.
  • Impressing clients and protecting astrologers were key functions of thought interpretation in historical astrology.

01:43:47

Astrologers prove skeptics wrong with accuracy.

  • Astrologers faced skepticism and the need to provide compelling proof to change opinions.
  • Anecdotes exist of skeptics turned believers due to impressive astrological readings.
  • Some astrologers use "convincers" like identifying moles or scars to impress clients.
  • Demonstrating astrological accuracy can inspire belief and continued study.
  • Thought interpretation can be valuable for skeptics and astrologers alike.
  • Historical astrology focused on "Horary Questions" or "Questions" as a distinct branch.
  • Arabic and Byzantine traditions also referred to astrology as "Questions" or "Interrogations."
  • Astrology's transactional nature has evolved, impacting how astrologers are perceived and paid.
  • Modern astrologers can gain insight into ancient practices but may also have blind spots.
  • Reading a chart involves analyzing planetary significators and aspects for insights and predictions.

01:56:44

"Successful shift to home-based astrology business"

  • Jupiter is on the IC, emphasizing its connection with fourth house themes.
  • The question revolves around shifting from working outside to working from home.
  • Both benefic planets, Jupiter and Venus, are in the fourth house, indicating positive outcomes.
  • Venus, ruling money and astrology, being in the fourth house aligns with the question's focus.
  • The Moon's aspects suggest financial gains and a reassuring financial outlook.
  • Primary and secondary significators applying to benefics indicate a positive outcome.
  • Lisa's decision to quit her day job and focus on astrology was successful and timely.
  • The chart's overwhelmingly positive indications led to a confident recommendation to take the leap.
  • Mercury's struggles are mitigated by Jupiter's strength, indicating a favorable outcome.
  • The use of whole sign houses in horary astrology is discussed, highlighting its validity and historical context.

02:09:10

Debate over house systems in astrology

  • Different opinions exist on the use of house systems in astrology, with some advocating for quadrant houses for horary and others supporting whole sign houses.
  • Some astrologers use whole sign houses for Natal charts but switch to quadrant houses for horary, despite the interchangeability of rules between branches.
  • There is a lack of substantial argument for the necessity of different house systems for various branches of astrology, leading to accidental adherence to specific systems.
  • While some prefer quadrant houses for horary, others, like the speakers, find whole sign houses equally effective due to the shared basic principles in astrology.
  • The principles of establishing significators, rulers of houses, and analyzing planetary movements remain consistent across different house systems in astrology.
  • People tend to be more dogmatic about house systems in horary astrology compared to Natal astrology, with varying opinions on the necessity of quadrant houses for horary readings.
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