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Chris Voss: How to Succeed at Hard Conversations | Huberman Lab Podcast

Andrew Huberman・156 minutes read

Andrew Huberman hosts the Huberman Lab podcast with guest Chris Voss, covering insights on holding difficult conversations for specific outcomes, emphasizing the importance of emotions and negotiation strategies. Voss discusses detecting deception, negotiation tips, and the impact of low-frequency sounds on emotional states, alongside sponsorships and personal experiences.

Insights

  • Importance of paying attention to emotions in discussions for accurate processing and communication.
  • Significance of physical and mental stamina in navigating challenging conversations and decision-making processes.
  • Guidance on detecting deception through specific probing questions to determine if someone is lying.
  • Generosity in negotiations establishes rapport and fosters collaboration for optimal outcomes.
  • Mirroring in communication accesses a different part of the brain, aiding in understanding and connecting thoughts effectively.

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Recent questions

  • How can one navigate challenging conversations effectively?

    Navigating challenging conversations effectively involves paying close attention to emotions, both yours and the other party's, for accurate processing and communication. It is crucial to maintain physical and mental stamina during discussions and decision-making processes. Understanding negotiation strategies, mindset preparation, and emotional regulation techniques can lead to successful outcomes. Detecting deception through specific probing questions and staying calm while shifting emotions positively are key elements in handling difficult conversations.

  • What insights can be gained from negotiation experts?

    Negotiation experts like Chris Voss, with over two decades of experience in the FBI, offer valuable insights for achieving optimal outcomes in negotiations. They emphasize the importance of understanding each other's perspectives, hypothesis testing, and collaborative decision-making. Approaching negotiations with generosity, offering value without expecting anything in return, can establish rapport and foster collaboration. Hypothesis testing, understanding perspectives, and generosity are crucial components of successful negotiations.

  • How can one prevent falling for potential scams in negotiations?

    To prevent falling for potential scams in negotiations, it is essential to assess the legitimacy of threats by determining if scammers have access to your account or data. Creating doubt in the scammer's ability to carry out threats can be effective in avoiding being scammed. Urgency in requests, especially for immediate action or money, should be considered a red flag. Confirming the identity of the person making urgent requests and asking fair and direct questions can help gauge the seriousness of the other party in negotiations.

  • What role does ego depletion play in negotiations?

    Ego depletion, likened to decision fatigue, can affect goal-directed behavior in negotiations. It is described as the depletion of dopamine due to prolonged defense of one's position. Wearing someone out through ego depletion may lead to temporary compliance but not lasting agreements. Readiness in negotiations, with small practice interactions throughout the day, is highlighted as important. Triggering a state change in others through questions can provide insights into their motivations and character.

  • How can empathy and mirroring be utilized in negotiations?

    Empathy, particularly tactical empathy, involves understanding the other party's perspective without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing. Demonstrating empathy, even in challenging situations, can lead to better communication and outcomes. Mirroring, a simple and effective skill, involves repeating one to three words of what someone has said to connect thoughts and signals that they were heard. It accesses a different part of the brain than labeling people and helps the listener understand the conversation better.

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Summary

00:00

"Negotiation Strategies for Successful Outcomes"

  • Andrew Huberman hosts the Huberman Lab podcast discussing science and science-based tools for everyday life.
  • Chris Voss, a former FBI agent and author of "Never Split the Difference," is the guest on the podcast.
  • Voss shares insights on holding difficult conversations to achieve specific outcomes in various contexts like business, relationships, and negotiations.
  • Emphasizes the importance of paying attention to emotions, both others' and one's own, during discussions for accurate processing and communication.
  • Discusses the significance of physical and mental stamina in navigating challenging conversations and decision-making processes.
  • Voss provides guidance on detecting deception through specific probing questions to determine if someone is lying.
  • Voss's expertise in negotiation, gained from over two decades in the FBI, offers valuable insights for achieving optimal outcomes in negotiations.
  • Huberman highlights the separation of the podcast from his academic roles, focusing on providing free science-related information to the public.
  • Sponsorship mentions for Plunge, offering a self-cooling cold plunge for health benefits, and Roka, providing high-quality eyeglasses and sunglasses.
  • Voss and Huberman delve into negotiation strategies, mindset preparation, and emotional regulation techniques for successful negotiations, emphasizing the importance of staying calm and shifting emotions positively during discussions.

14:53

"Sound frequencies impact emotions in negotiations"

  • Auditory system has neurons responding to different sound frequencies, similar to how neurons respond to colors or light angles.
  • Low frequency sounds, like a deep voice, cause neurons to fire at a low frequency in the brain, affecting emotional tone.
  • High frequency sounds do not elicit the same response in the brain as low frequency sounds.
  • Low frequency sounds can change the emotional state of individuals who hear them.
  • Playing high volume music, like Milli Vanilli, was used in Panama and Waco for various purposes, despite being counterproductive.
  • Benevolent negotiations, like planning trips or merging finances, require understanding each other's perspectives and hypothesis testing.
  • Starting negotiations with "win-win" can signal lack of authenticity or trustworthiness, often leading to unfavorable outcomes.
  • Offering value without expecting anything in return establishes rapport and fosters collaboration in negotiations.
  • Generosity in approaching negotiations, like Joe Polish did, can lead to a strong foundation for future interactions.
  • Hypothesis testing and understanding perspectives are crucial in benevolent negotiations, allowing for collaborative decision-making and learning.

29:57

"Generosity Builds Relationships, AG1 Enhances Performance"

  • Generosity approach seen in successful people for building relationships and collaborations.
  • Importance of giving without expecting in return for long-term relationships.
  • Experience of lending laboratory instruments and establishing a culture of borrowing without returning.
  • Technician's advice to not borrow from others to avoid owing them, leading to a surplus of borrowed items.
  • Moving institutions after giving away much and receiving little, resulting in positive farewells.
  • Personal enjoyment in providing positive reviews and feedback for good service.
  • Sponsorship of podcast by AG1, a vitamin, mineral, probiotic drink for foundational nutrition.
  • AG1 benefits include improved focus, energy, sleep, and stress buffering.
  • Special offer for AG1 includes five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D3 K2.
  • Lessons learned from high-stakes negotiations in the FBI, emphasizing patterns of behavior and specificity in threats.

44:49

Avoid Cryptocurrency Scams with Smart Negotiations

  • Cryptocurrency is often used in negotiations to sell back items due to its untraceable nature.
  • Accounts can be hacked, even of smart individuals, leading to potential loss.
  • Giving in to demands may not guarantee a resolution; scammers might ask for more.
  • To assess the threat's legitimacy, determine if the scammers have access to your account or data.
  • In negotiations, the other party gives in when they feel they've gained everything they can.
  • Creating doubt in the scammer's ability to carry out threats can prevent being scammed.
  • Urgency in requests, especially for immediate action or money, is a red flag for potential scams.
  • Confirming the identity of the person making urgent requests can prevent falling for scams.
  • Asking fair and direct questions can help gauge the seriousness of the other party in negotiations.
  • Deep thinking questions, like asking how much money they think they deserve, can reveal the other party's intentions in negotiations.

59:24

Negotiation Expert's Strategy: Exhausting Aggressive Adversaries

  • Johnny Domenico Pico, a hostage negotiation expert, successfully negotiated with Hezbollah in the mid-80s and wrote a book called "Man Without a Gun."
  • Pico's negotiation strategy involved exhausting the other side to achieve success.
  • In high-friction negotiations with aggressive adversaries, the goal is to slow down the process and wear them out to either make them relent or reveal a loophole.
  • Inside Tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes blood and DNA data to help individuals understand their health and meet their goals.
  • Regular blood work is essential for understanding factors impacting immediate and long-term health.
  • Inside Tracker offers a personalized platform to interpret data and provide nutrition and supplement recommendations.
  • In negotiations, using how and what questions can tire out aggressive adversaries and reveal their intentions.
  • Vision drives decision-making, so clarifying implementation details can gauge the other party's intentions.
  • Human nature and investment play a role in negotiations, influencing behaviors and commitments.
  • Listening to your gut instincts can provide valuable insights in assessing truthfulness and making decisions in negotiations.

01:14:21

"Subconscious wisdom, gut feelings, and negotiation strategies"

  • The subconscious is emphasized as the source of real wisdom, contrasting the common belief that the forebrain drives evolution.
  • Gut feelings are discussed, highlighting instances where they have been accurate but often suppressed.
  • Negotiation strategies are explored, focusing on cues in face-to-face interactions and the importance of aligning verbal and non-verbal cues.
  • The significance of affective cues, tone of voice, and body language in negotiations is emphasized, cautioning against making assumptions based on these cues.
  • In-person negotiations involve gathering and processing physical cues, necessitating revisiting information to ensure accuracy without making the other party feel interrogated.
  • Online and text communications should be concise and focused on conveying one point clearly to avoid coming off as cold.
  • A documentary film on tactical empathy by Nick Nanton is mentioned, highlighting the need for clear and direct communication in problem-solving situations.
  • A scenario involving a quick and efficient problem-solving negotiation through text messaging is detailed, showcasing the benefits of direct and succinct communication.
  • The importance of being a straight shooter in difficult conversations, such as breakups in various contexts, is discussed to ensure honesty and soft landing of the message.
  • The necessity of addressing difficult conversations promptly and gently is stressed, focusing on the importance of being direct while considering the impact on the other party's ego.

01:29:52

"Effective Strategies for Delivering Bad News"

  • Arthur Calliandro is described as a phenomenal person by Norman Vincent Peale.
  • When faced with the difficult task of firing someone, Arthur advises that there is no gentle way to do it.
  • A key tip given is to fire someone on a Monday rather than a Friday to give them a work week to adjust.
  • It is recommended to warn someone before delivering bad news to allow them to brace themselves.
  • The advice is to deliver bad news directly without unnecessary pleasantries to minimize pain.
  • The concept of ego depletion is discussed, likened to decision fatigue, affecting goal-directed behavior.
  • Ego depletion is described as the depletion of dopamine due to prolonged defense of one's position.
  • In negotiations, wearing someone out through ego depletion may lead to temporary compliance but not lasting agreements.
  • The importance of readiness in negotiations is highlighted, with small practice interactions throughout the day recommended.
  • Triggering a state change in others through questions like "What do you love about..." can provide quick insights into their true motivations and character.

01:44:40

"Mission-driven honesty, self-love, and self-care"

  • The speaker values their mission over making money, emphasizing honesty and core values in interactions.
  • Encourages shifting conversations to focus on what individuals love about themselves, leading to candid responses.
  • Discusses the challenge of handling people who vent, suggesting that some individuals tend to focus on others' mistakes rather than their own.
  • Advises on responding to someone venting, emphasizing the importance of understanding the root cause of frustration or anger.
  • Differentiates between frustration and anger, highlighting the forward or backward focus of negative emotions.
  • Recommends allowing individuals to vent while providing verbal recognition of their feelings to deactivate anger.
  • Suggests spiritual practices, such as meditation and prayer, as tools for emotional well-being.
  • Shares personal fitness journey, including involvement in sports, weightlifting, and current practices like cold plunges and saunas.
  • Emphasizes the connection between physical and psychological well-being, highlighting the importance of self-care for effective performance.
  • Reflects on the evolution of self-care practices, emphasizing the role of self-care in enhancing one's capacity to contribute positively to the world.

01:59:49

"Empathy in Crisis: Survival and Communication"

  • Sometimes taking time off to relax and recharge is essential for maintaining productivity.
  • During a siege in Saint Martin's Parish lasting six days, sleep deprivation was common due to the intense nature of such situations.
  • Preparation for a siege involves being ready to keep a person on the line to prevent a raid.
  • Early training experiences, like the Princess Gate Siege in London, emphasized the need to keep individuals on the phone during critical moments.
  • Humanizing oneself in hostage situations, such as by sharing your name, can increase chances of survival.
  • Dehumanizing hostages, like putting bags over their heads, can make it easier for perpetrators to harm them.
  • Compliance and humanization can improve the treatment of hostages and potentially increase their chances of survival.
  • Empathy, particularly tactical empathy, involves understanding the other party's perspective without necessarily agreeing or sympathizing.
  • Tactical empathy focuses on transmitting information to make the other party feel understood, even if compassion is not felt.
  • Demonstrating empathy, even in challenging situations like terrorism cases, can lead to better communication and outcomes.

02:15:30

"Mirroring: Effective Skill in Communication and Negotiation"

  • Mirroring is a simple, effective skill that involves repeating one to three words of what someone has said.
  • Hostage negotiators use mirroring by repeating the last one to three words spoken by the other person.
  • Mirroring does not involve mimicking body language or tone of voice, just repeating words.
  • It accesses a different part of the brain than labeling people.
  • Mirroring is used in place of asking for clarification or further explanation.
  • Mirroring helps the listener connect thoughts and signals that they heard the words but need more explanation.
  • Neuroscience lacks knowledge on how brains interact, but experiments show that self-labeling negative emotions can diminish them.
  • Proactive listening involves anticipating and calling out negative emotions in a conversation.
  • Being proactive in addressing negativity can inoculate against negative emotions and prevent embarrassment.
  • Employing family members or friends of kidnappers can tap into different aspects of their psyche and potentially reveal incongruences in their behavior.

02:31:24

Family Dynamics Impact Negotiations and Mental Health

  • The system you employ is designed to yield specific outcomes.
  • Dwight Watson, a man on a tractor in DC, is part of a family system that placed him there.
  • During a high-profile siege, Watson's family members arrived, seeking to influence the situation.
  • Family members can be crucial in negotiations if they say the right things, but direct conversations may reopen old wounds.
  • Family dynamics play a significant role in psychology, affecting individuals positively or negatively.
  • Family members can unknowingly hurt each other, impacting live conversations and negotiations.
  • Humor, camaraderie, and understanding among colleagues help in dealing with the emotional weight of high-stakes jobs.
  • Maintaining mental health involves finding ways to unload emotional baggage and maintain optimism.
  • Fireside, a new social media platform, offers interactive group coaching sessions led by experts like Mark Cuban.
  • The platform provides a unique opportunity for real-time implementation of negotiation tools and direct feedback.

02:47:00

"Black Swan Method: Mastering Real Estate Conversations"

  • Chris Voss recently released a book for residential real estate agents, focusing on the Black Swan method for handling difficult emotional conversations during property transactions.
  • Voss emphasizes the power of simple, field-tested tools in negotiations and interpersonal interactions, suggesting the "sounds like" question as a potent communication tool.
  • The conversation highlights the importance of teaching children early on to listen effectively, promoting better understanding and communication skills.
  • The host commends Voss for his knowledge-sharing efforts through various platforms like Instagram, books, and courses, acknowledging his valuable contributions to improving communication and negotiation skills.
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